# Godwin's Law > Godwin's Law is a 1990 internet adage by attorney Mike Godwin stating that as online discussions grow longer, the probability of a Hitler or Nazi comparison approaches one. Godwin's Law is an internet adage coined by attorney Mike Godwin in 1990 stating that "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one"[4]. Originally formulated as a "natural law of Usenet," it became one of the internet's most widely recognized rules of online discourse, added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2012[3]. The law was deliberately designed as a counter-meme to discourage lazy Hitler comparisons that trivialized the Holocaust[7]. ## Origin Mike Godwin, an American attorney who later served as counsel for the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the Wikimedia Foundation, coined the law in 1990[2]. He formulated it after observing the pattern of gratuitous Nazi comparisons spreading across Usenet newsgroups, the Well, and various BBS communities[7]. In his own words from a 1994 Wired article, Godwin described his creation as an experiment in memetic engineering. He had decided that "the Nazi-comparison meme had gotten out of hand" and set out to build a counter-meme[7]. The resulting formulation: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one"[4]. Godwin deliberately framed the law to sound like a mathematical or scientific principle, but its purpose was rhetorical and pedagogical[4]. He wanted people "who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust"[4]. The observation itself was originated by Richard Sexton, but Godwin popularized it and gave it the form that stuck[2]. He seeded the law into Usenet newsgroups wherever he spotted a lazy Nazi reference. Other users began citing it independently, and the counter-meme replicated on its own[7]. Know Your Meme researchers identified Godwin's 1994 Wired piece as one of the earliest uses of the word "meme" to describe viral media and the spread of ideas through internet communication[3]. - **Platform:** Usenet - **Creator:** Mike Godwin (attorney, creator), Richard Sexton (originator of the underlying observation) - **Date:** 1990 ## Overview Godwin's Law is the observation that as any online discussion drags on, the probability of somebody comparing another person or idea to Hitler or the Nazis approaches one[1]. It started as a piece of Usenet folk wisdom in 1990 and got formal enough over the decades that the Oxford English Dictionary added it in 2012[2]. The rule is descriptive, not prescriptive. Godwin never argued that every Hitler comparison is automatically fallacious, only that hyperbolic ones tend to derail whatever conversation was happening[3]. In many forum cultures, an unspoken codicil developed on top of the law itself: the first person to reach for the Nazi comparison is treated as having lost the argument, and any deliberate attempt to trigger the law for that thread-ending effect does not count[4]. The short version most people repeat online is close to Godwin's original wording, and it is used both as a genuine warning that a debate has gone off the rails and as a punchline whenever someone in a comment section inevitably invokes the Third Reich[5]. ## How It Spread After its initial seeding on Usenet, the law spread organically across early internet discussion spaces. The Usenet community formalized a corollary as "Usenet Rule #4," which stated that any off-topic mention of Hitler or Nazis would cause a thread to end quickly[2]. A tradition developed in many groups that once someone invoked a Nazi comparison, the thread was over and that person had lost[5]. As threaded discussion moved from Usenet to web forums, chat rooms, comment sections, and wikis in the 2000s, Godwin's Law traveled with it[3]. The rule proved surprisingly durable because the behavior it described never went away. Any platform with arguments had someone ready to play the Hitler card. On October 9, 2009, the r/GodwinsLaw subreddit launched, describing itself as "the place to highlight those who belittle horror of the most reprehensible figures in history by comparing them to people and things they simply don't like"[3]. In 2012, Godwin's Law was formally added to the third edition of the Oxford English Dictionary[4]. PBS Ideas Channel covered the law in a July 2015 video titled "Three Laws of The Internet Explained!" which pulled in over 230,000 views[3]. QI: Quite Interesting uploaded "What Is Godwin's Law?" in January 2017, earning more than 52,000 views[3]. In March 2017, a TIL post on Reddit quoting the law received over 1,800 upvotes and 190 comments[3]. The law received a major real-world stress test in January 2017 when Donald Trump tweeted "Are we living in Nazi Germany?" in response to intelligence leaks. Twitter users immediately declared he had triggered Godwin's Law[8]. Then in August 2017, following the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville where actual neo-Nazi groups marched, Godwin himself weighed in on Twitter: "By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you"[3]. The tweet picked up more than 20,000 retweets and 48,000 likes in under a week, and was covered by the Washington Post, the Telegraph, HuffPost, Esquire, and other outlets[3]. ## How to Use People typically invoke Godwin's Law in one of two ways. The first is as a live referee call in a comment thread: once someone drops a Hitler or Nazi comparison, another user replies with "Godwin's Law" or posts the hashtag to declare the debate effectively over[6]. The second common use is meta, as a shorthand for the general pattern that any long enough internet argument will end up in Nazi territory, often quoted in the paraphrased form "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1"[5]. ## Frequently Asked Questions ### What is Godwin's Law? Godwin's Law is an internet adage stating that as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of someone making a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis approaches one. It was coined by American attorney Mike Godwin in 1990[4]. ### Where did Godwin's Law come from? Mike Godwin created the law in 1990 based on his observations of argument patterns on Usenet newsgroups. He deliberately seeded it as a counter-meme to discourage lazy Nazi comparisons[7]. ### What does Godwin's Law mean? The law describes the near-inevitable tendency for online arguments to eventually involve a Hitler or Nazi comparison. It's meant to highlight how such comparisons are often used as a cheap rhetorical shortcut that trivializes the Holocaust[7]. ### How do you use Godwin's Law? When someone in an online argument makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis, other participants cite Godwin's Law to point out the comparison. A common tradition holds that whoever made the comparison has lost the debate[5]. ### Is Godwin's Law still popular? Yes. Godwin's Law was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2012 and saw major renewed attention during the Trump era, particularly after the 2017 Charlottesville rally[3]. Its creator was still actively commenting on its application as recently as December 2023[4]. ### Who is Mike Godwin? Mike Godwin is an American attorney and author who served as counsel for the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the Wikimedia Foundation. He coined Godwin's Law in 1990 as an experiment in memetic engineering[7]. ### Does the person who mentions Hitler automatically lose the argument? Not according to Godwin himself. The "loser" tradition developed as a community convention but was never part of the original law. Godwin has said the law should be "less a conversation ender and more a conversation starter"[4]. ### Is it ever okay to compare something to the Nazis? Yes. Godwin has repeatedly stated that thoughtful, substantive Nazi comparisons are valid. After the 2017 Charlottesville rally, he tweeted "By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you"[9]. ### What is reductio ad Hitlerum? It's the formal name for the logical fallacy of dismissing an idea solely because Hitler or the Nazis also held it. Leo Strauss coined the term in 1951[6]. ### What is Henderson's Law? Henderson's Law, by Joel Henderson, observes that awareness of Godwin's Law has caused people to invoke it against any Nazi comparison, even when the comparison is accurate and warranted[2]. ### Did a Harvard study disprove Godwin's Law? In 2021, Harvard researchers found that Nazi comparisons don't increase with statistically meaningful frequency as Reddit discussions grow longer, suggesting the "law" is more cultural observation than mathematical reality[4]. ### When did Godwin's Law enter the dictionary? Godwin's Law was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2012[3]. ## References 1. [Sean Spicer just forgot the 1st rule of politics: Never compare anything to Hitler | CNN Politics]() 2. [Internet FAQ Archives - Online Education - faqs.org]() 3. [Godwin's Law - TV Tropes]() 4. [Godwin's Law - Know Your Meme]() 5. [Godwin's law]() 6. [Godwin's Law - Urban Dictionary]() 7. [Reductio ad Hitlerum]() 8. [Meme, Counter-meme | WIRED]() 9. [Godwin's Law: How Donald Trump used it by referencing Nazi Germany on Twitter | Metro News]() 10. [Godwin's law - Wiktionary, the free dictionary]() 11. [Godwin's Law Creator Supports Calling Racist Demonstrators 'Nazis' | HuffPost Entertainment]() 12. [Did Elon Musk Just Give a Nazi Salute at Trump's Inaugration? Breaking Down How Close We Are to the Third Reich]() --- Source: https://meme.com/memes/godwins-law Published by meme.com — The Internet Meme Library